Cllr Kate Butler (Labour, Reddish North): Shadow spokesperson – Corporate and Customer Services
Councillor Roberts, at the Executive Meeting on 17th November, you said ‘that the plans for the locality operating model are progressing very well.’
Could you share with us what evidence you have of that assertion please?
Cllr Iain Roberts (Liberal Democrat, Cheadle and Gatley), Deputy Leader of the Council
Thank you very much for the question. I think firstly, the evidence is that the work of the various working groups is progressing, on schedule and will be coming together very soon. I think it’s coming to scrutiny next week and I just want to remind Members [that] this is really about giving Councillors, local residents, local organisations, the toolkit to do more in their communities if they want to, in terms of setting local priorities, getting things done and working together and I think it’s interesting when you look around, that actually there are some really good examples in the pilot work that has been done of how that’s already working.
So, we can look particularly on the healthcare side and on the people side over in Marple, we can look at the work with the CCG’s of devolving down to the 8 areas of Stockport. We can look at events, so for example, the Mayor and I had the pleasure very recently of being at an event at the Kingsway School, which was really one of the first events that have been worked on with this sort of idea. It was Year 9 pupils at the Kingsway School helping elderly people to use IT and it was absolutely fantastic. Everyone there loved it and both sides got a lot out of it. So that’s just one example of something that’s working in practice.
But, as I say, the proposals are coming to scrutiny next week, and I very much hope that members will engage with this and will help us to develop this toolkit that we want to make sure Members have, that community groups have, that residents have, to give everyone more influence and more say over what happens in their local areas.
Councillor Butler:
This is the problem that I have with trying to evaluate how locality working is going, because the examples that tend to be cited, also tend to be those kinds of projects that were either already in operation, or were going to happen anyway. So it’s hard to see what the influence of this new working model has had there. My question is are you still confident that the projected just over £4m in savings by 2016/17 are still going to be made?
Councillor Roberts:
I should just correct Councillor Butler that the thing I mentioned at Kingsway School was absolutely not something that was happening anyway. That’s something that’s come directly out of the work we have done on this and I’m sure many more to come. Locality working does not have any savings against it in our budget plan. Locality working is enabling budget proposal, so if you look at the savings for 16/17 that adds up to just over £21m…locality working is not contributing directly to those savings.
Comment: There is nothing wrong with devolving power to local people, but locality working is still incredibly nebulous after being in development for around two years. In 2014 Cllr Roberts promised £4.1 million of cuts would be made through changes to how community services were delivered, but he now seems to have abandoned this unworkable proposal. Proposing an increased role for the voluntary sector at the same time as cutting Council support to those very same groups is inconsistent and raises questions over how deliverable locality-based working is.
Cllr Andy Sorton (Labour, Brinnington & Central):
In relation to Neighbourhood Management and the proposed changes in the consultation, I’d like to ask the Executive Member in regard to that consultation.
Labour Councillors represent three out of the four Neighbourhood Management areas, and there are fundamental changes and cuts that are going to take place in that and it’s going to be those wards that are affected by it.
The question I would pose to the Executive Member – is whether she is happy that ward Councillors are actually having to demand a meeting to have any consultation, I mean meaningful consultation in these proposals, to ensure that the wards views are represented in this Neighbourhood Management [Review]?
Cllr Shan Alexander (Liberal Democrat, Marple South) Executive councillor – Safe and Resilient Communities:
I understand that it comes to Central Area Committee every quarter and is discussed at the Central Area Committee. My understanding is that the Councillors were consulted. If you say they weren’t, then I will have to look into that.
Councillor Sorton:
I’ll frame this as a question Councillor Alexander. The [business case] document never went to the Central Area Committee. But what it does say is that a range of stakeholders [will] shape and progress this proposal and it talks about Scrutiny Committees, Political Groups and elected Members. The elected Members actually got a link to ‘snapsurvey.com’ with six loaded questions and that was classed as our consultation in the ward.
I’m sure you’d want to…condemn that and again I would ask is it right that ward Councillors have to demand meetings with officers to get a briefing on such important things that happen in their ward?
Councillor Alexander:
Mr Mayor, Councillor Sorton could have contacted me if he was not happy with the consultation. As far as I am concerned, the consultation went ahead. I’m not quite sure what Councillor Sorton is trying to tell me, because it was a full consultation and if he’s not happy with the consultation then write back and say that…the business case will be coming to Corporate Resource Management and Governance Scrutiny Committee (CRMG) again next week I think. The business case will come and if there are unanswered questions, I’m happy for Councillor Sorton to get those through.
Councillor Sorton (comment in response)
We hear a lot at the moment about this Council and how it wants to say it’s committed to devolving services into the communities and that would be great but their deeds simply don’t match their words and [actions over] the Neighbourhood Management document clearly demonstrate that.
You see you don’t become a Councillor for the status quo, particularly in Priority 1 areas. You get involved to move it forward, you get involved to make that change. What Councillors won’t know, because they probably don’t know a lot about Neighbourhood Management, is local councillors, ward councillors, are not involved in any way, shape or form, in developing the strategy.
It’s almost a Quango, run by a thing called ‘Place Board’. We are never asked to meetings, we are never asked to set strategies and it’s utter contempt for the people who are elected, to actually represent these people, to move it forward, and to develop strategy to get it from a Priority 1 to a Priority 2 – what we’ve heard tonight is the effort and the kind of contempt that is shown for Councillors can be demonstrated when your consultation in a strategy for Neighbourhood Management to do with Priority 1, is done with snapshotsurveys.com.
That is the full extent of our input into Neighbourhood Management strategy. Into strategies for moving people out of deprivation, and it’s absolutely scandalous. The consultations that are taking place at the moment, and this doesn’t matter what colour your rosette is, we either get proper consultation as ward Councillors, or we do not. Councillor Murphy was given a commitment here about the market place, not so long ago, about being involved in it. The latest consultations, we found out about on Facebook. Councillors are being consulted by Facebook and snapshotsurvey.com on central, important issues, that affect their wards and it [might] be us today, but you tomorrow.
It would be terrible if we had to come to this Council and pass a motion to ensure that Councillors had meaningful consultation about issues in their ward. If this is where we have got, it’s absolutely outrageous. On something as important as this, on…deprivation, to leave Councillors out of it and to say ‘you should have given me a call’ is simply not good enough Councillor Alexander. That’s a document and we should have been in it from Day 1 and we should be involved in the Neighbourhood Management strategy from Day 1.
Councillor Alexander (response to comment)
It is interesting to hear what Councillor Sorton is saying. We are looking at it, it is work in progress and I wasn’t sure of certain areas. I know you didn’t like it, but I picked up the phone and said could I come and speak to you and I went to the officers where they are looking at the strategy and asked them to explain certain areas where I was not familiar. I mean that is open to all Councillors, it’s not just to Executive Councillors, it’s open to all Councillors and I do know that Central Area Committee these reports do come to Central Area Committee where you can give your comments. Of course the Councillors should be involved in it and of course you’ve got to participate in it as well.
It’s not a one way consultation, it’s a two way consultation and if you feel you don’t have enough information, just pick up the phone and ask the officers who are working on the consultation whether you could come and speak to them and give your views to them. They don’t have to keep coming to you, you can go to them as well because that’s exactly what I’m doing and I can tell you I’m seeing someone tomorrow with regard to the Neighbourhood [Management] consultation. I’ve got two meetings tomorrow because I am asking, they didn’t tell me. I got the report and when I read the report, I felt I needed to know more.
We want to do our best…the previous strategy did not work in Stockport and you know that as well as I do. It did not bridge that gap, it did not have the effective outcomes that we wanted, so we now are looking at a different way of working because we don’t have the money that we had previously to do it that way. But it didn’t work either, so we are trying to get more outcomes out of it. The other point Mr. Mayor is this whole item is going to CRMG on Tuesday and again, the Councillors will have input into it. If you have input into it please do put it because I want new ideas, new views on how to take it forward and…because you are in the ward…you have information [which] will help the strategy. [It will] be very, very welcome to hear that.
Comment: This is a very serious example of how decisions are made in isolation by Stockport Council. Following on from this exchange, Cllr Alexander has admitted that these proposals have never gone to any meeting of Central Area Committee. Ward Councillors have also had to approach Senior Officers to secure any kind of briefing on the changes when this should be done proactively.
Cllr Sorton, alongside other Labour Councillors, had also already formally responded to the consultation raising a number of the points made above – this exchange is emblematic of an Executive Member not liaising with officers effectively.
Cllr Colin Foster (Labour, Heatons South): Shadow spokesperson – Children and Education
Can the Executive Member for Safe and Resilient Communities update members on her plan to tackle the huge projected shortfall in secondary school places in Stockport by the end of this Parliament?
Cllr Shan Alexander (Liberal Democrat, Marple South) Executive councillor – Safe and Resilient Communities:
A report went to Scrutiny and this was discussed as well. Yes we do have a bit of a shortfall, but this was looked at a few years ago and we are aware of the shortfall. At the present moment we are working with the secondary sector to see what can be done and in Mr Osborne’s review there is money available for capital of about £23m or something like that so the money may come through Government…it is a case of looking to extend schools and finding places for the young people. For 2016-17 we should be alright but from 2017-18 we have to look at what we can do to find the places for them and we are working on that.
Councillor Foster:
Could I thank the Executive Member for her response, but I would like to explore this a little bit further. Given the scale of the numbers we are looking at, my question was more of a holistic approach to it. You talked about the Government [providing] some money.
What plans have you got in place to try to respond to this need that is coming over the horizon very rapidly? When you take on board that if you have to take a major replacement of some of our secondary schools, or massive extensions and improvements to those schools, given the state of them and we are looking in the region of about £25m for an average secondary school – can you give us any indication as to what commitment Stockport is likely to make in terms of its capital programme in relation to this?
Councillor Alexander:
Mr Mayor, I have given the reply that in Stockport we are looking at the secondary places, we are looking at extending schools, we are looking at that and at the moment, we have issues, but we will overcome that because for 2016 we have lesser issues than in 2017 when the primary sector comes up. If Councillor Foster wants a more detailed report as to numbers, I cannot give him that and I will give him a written reply.
Comment: This will be one of the major challenges for Stockport in the coming years, and the Executive need to be developing a precise forward plan as to how the demand for secondary school places will be met across the borough.
Cllr Richard Coaton (Labour, Edgeley & Cheadle Heath):
Liberal Democrats in Parliament have strongly supported proposals in the Sunday Trading Bill to relax Sunday trading laws, despite warnings from local businesses, retail workers and trade unions about the risks of such a change.
Is the Executive Member for Thriving Economy concerned at all that even though decisions on this issue may be devolved to Greater Manchester, that Stockport in practice will be forced to relax regulations in order to compete with other areas of the country?
Is it not likely we’ll have extended Sunday trading even if local people across the conurbation don’t think it’s the right thing to do to protect their work-life balance?
Councillor Patrick McAuley (Liberal Democrat, Manor), Executive councillor – Thriving Economy
As I understand it Councillor Coaton, the Labour Leaders in Greater Manchester are also in favour of the proposal. Sunday trading is not something I’ve considered a great deal, but I’m happy to discuss the issue further with officers if you like. Obviously it’s an issue that has come to the attention from residents, so I’m more than happy to arrange a briefing with him and the relevant council officer, if that’s something you would wish to take up.
Councillor Sue Derbyshire (Liberal Democrat, Manor), Leader of the Council
Just about the question on Sunday trading. It was never something that was asked for by GM it was a sort of surprise ‘add on’ I think of the devolution agreement and we were looking at how to respond to that. But it’s not something that was taken up with any great enthusiasm by any of the Leaders, including myself and my understanding is that the proposal has been dropped and won’t be in the Bill, but it’s certainly not something that we see within GM as particularly valuable.
Comment: The relaxation of Sunday Trading laws has the potential to affect the work-life balance of thousands of workers across Stockport, so a Government rethink on these proposals would be something we would welcome.
Cllr Wendy Wild (Labour, Davenport & Cale Green), Deputy Leader of the Labour Group
Over the summer the Executive Member commissioned accountancy firm BDO to salami-slice £1.4 million off the Council’s Learning Disabilities services for the budget next year.
What proportion of these cuts are you still proposing to implement in 2016-17?
Cllr Keith Holloway (Liberal Democrat, Cheadle & Gatley), Executive councillor – Supporting Adults
Thank you for the question. As the Leader of the Council did explain, we are in quite an unprecedented situation, with the announcements from the Comprehensive Spending Review giving us some totally unexpected decisions that we need to make. Certainly we have not, absolutely not, salami sliced services for people with learning disabilities.
We have continued with our strategy of bringing people back into local services, into places like Heys Court that opened a few months ago. We will continue that. We are also looking at ways in which the support for tenants can be better provided by a tendering process. That is continuing, what we do not know, and until our finance teams have gone through the small print, we cannot know, what options this Osborne tax gives us in the future. We are looking at that and as soon as we are in a position to make some firm proposals, we will be bringing that forward.
Comment: Specifically on the changes to the Learning Disability Service, what the Executive Member neglects to mention is that earlier in the year he commissioned accountancy firm BDO to salami-slice £4.75 million off the adult social care budget. This included £1.471 million from LD provision in Stockport, which he has now postponed after he realised his own proposals were undeliverable. This is another example of a Council-orchestrated mess which has only managed to create uncertainty for local service users.